Questioner: Acharya Ji, but I also see a paradox in how we live our lives. We get born, we get inducted into the societal norms and situations—we start living our lives. For a large part of life, not all of us have the benefit of being aware of how we are living our lives. And then we get into actions, which become like a compulsion, and we continue to do that. Few of us get the opportunity to drift away from this.
So, for a common man, firstly, how does he understand what karma is, what karma is right, and what karma is? Is it only action, or is it words or thoughts? So, what is the algorithm for him to be aware of?
Acharya Prashant: It is not so difficult at all. While I fully concur with what you initially said that given the way our society is, our families are, and our education system is, we just keep drifting along, you know. And yes, we do, in that drift, often take decisions that have very far-reaching effects, and obviously, they are irreversible. And then, one thing sits upon the other, and they get multiplied, and so much happens that just, you know, captivates us.
All that is all right. But the thing is, wisdom is so easily available at every point in life, you know? Especially in India, the question—what to do, what to choose, what’s worth living for—has been at the heart of all spiritual pursuits. So, it’s not merely about Krishna; you go to any of the scriptures, you go to sages, saints, and seers, and you’ll get the same idea. It’s not difficult at all.
So, if a person comes and says that, “This book feels very, very new,” it means that there has been a lot of misguidance. The fellow has either never willingly gone to the great books that are so ubiquitous—so easily available, or he has been willingly choosing the wrong kinds of teachers. He may be has gone to books but the wrong kinds of books. So, either of the two cases has happened.
Otherwise, it’s not difficult. I mean, you don’t have to know Sanskrit, you don’t have to follow philosophy. Even if you can go to the couplets of the very common sages, you know, even the folk songs, the regional folk songs—even they are imbued with wisdom. So, how can somebody say that the concept of right action has totally eluded him? But it’s happening.
So, while at one hand, I express surprise and disappointment; on the other hand, I see it happening. Obviously, it’s happening. Which means that there is an abundance of the false kind of teaching, and that’s dangerous.
Questioner: Sure. The book very clearly lays out how to choose the right action, will the right action will give the right result, and lastly, an action that reforms the actor. And across chapters, there is a lot of focus on why and what. But if somebody is in this vicious circle, he’s in loop—he’s acting out of his condition, the results are wrong, he’s again acting out of his condition, so it’s a vicious circle for him, how does he come out of the whirlpool? What is that one thing that he could do for himself to come out of this whirlpool?
Acharya Prashant: You see, even if I tell you the way to get out of this room, that would only mean that you emerge intact out of this room, and the entire purpose of the spiritual demolition process has been defeated. Compared to ‘what’, how is a very mischievous question. What is there makes us look squarely at the actor — Who is the actor? What’s his nature? Now, you are looking at the actor.
When you say, “How does the actor reach a particular goal”—as you said, “emerge out of the situation”—then we are not challenging the actor, we are letting the actor stay as she is, and we are guiding her to emerge out of her predicament staying as she is. Now, that’s exactly what the actor wants—to not change. Therefore, all methods and all advices that focus on “how to” are not only bound to fail but actually deteriorate the situation.
A while back, we were talking of bad teaching — a lot of bad teaching comes from this point, you know—‘How to be better?’ ‘How to make the right decisions?’ 11 ways to choose in a tricky position. So, even if you have taught me how to choose, 'I', as the misled one, I, as the false one, have remained at my place. What’s more? I now have two more tricks in my hands to continue with my mischief in an even more vicious way. Is that not so?
Questioner: Yeah, I got the perspective. Yeah. Indeed.
Acharya Prashant: So, ego is not to be reformed or given methods and tricks; the ego is to be introduced to its own reality. The ego needs to look at itself in the mirror and see that it is needlessly both ugly and suffering.
Questioner: And it takes a lot of courage as well.
Acharya Prashant: It takes a lot of courage if we are accustomed to doing the things the other way. Otherwise, it’s a fairly simple thing.
Questioner: Yeah. And we if we have a deep desire to let go of our suffering.
Acharya Prashant: Great, great. It depends on how dearly you firstly love yourself. If you really want to be free of suffering, then you will do what it takes; else, you’ll keep finding roundabout routes and such things.
Questioner: Sure. And you also mentioned that right action is something which gives you joy and contentment. Now, like, the ego is a false self, so what we continue to get misled again is that we consider the momentary gratification as joy and contentment. So, as a seeker, somebody who’s not a very simple—and you also said one very profound thing that if you don’t know anything, then life is still easier, but if you know some bits of it—and the more you know, the more suffering you have. So, what is the advice or what do you guide people from…
Acharya Prashant: First of all, what’s false must be called out and kept aside. ‘Joy’—the way the word is currently being used—it is being falsely represented as some kind of a synonym of happiness—exaggerated happiness. Joy is not happiness at all; joy is just freedom. So, in the name of joy, people continue with their false pursuit of fleeting freedom, of fleeting happiness. That doesn’t take them anywhere.
Joy is a negation of the kind of happiness that comes necessarily with sadness, of the kind of happiness that rides necessarily on tension, and that’s the—unfortunately, only kind of happiness that most of us know. Happiness that’s always feeling threatened, happiness that’s always bordered by, shadowed by the prospect of misery. Happiness that needs to be protected. And if we want to act a little spiritual, then we start calling this same petty happiness as joy, and that’s what, unfortunately, teachers, over the last few decades or in the last century, have been teaching us. So, the real meaning of Anand—joy is lost upon us and the repercussions are horrible.
You look at the state of this planet; you look at the pandemic; you look at the mental disintegration of population, the neurosis; the very decline in humanness, which is reflected in all kinds of atrocities today man is inflicting upon various life forms; the depletion of biodiversity; the hacking down of woods, forests; the rivers are gone; and having burnt the planet to ashes, we now want to colonize Mars; and all these kinds of stupidities, they are essential because of false spirituality.
In some sense, everybody is spiritual; it’s just that most of us have a wrong spirituality, a wrong philosophy we are living by. And we need a course correction immediately.
Questioner: Sure. I think one tip that you’ve given in the book is, the right duty is to find a way to help others, and you gave Gandhi Ji’s example of what the world needs. And would you just throw light on that? So, the idea or one of the ideas of this session is that people take back something which they can apply in their lives—some words of wisdom or your energy. So, what would you help them take back on this?
Acharya Prashant: In the context of helping others?
Questioner: In the context of doing one change in our own lives.
Acharya Prashant: No, first of all, we have to realize what our life is like. You know, I can’t change something without firstly understanding its processes and its actuality. I want to change something about this ceiling fan, can I do that firstly, you know…
Questioner: Without observing….
Acharya Prashant: Without knowing a thing about what magnetism is.
Questioner: No, not possible.
Acharya Prashant: So, first of all, I must know what this thing called my life is. We keep living without knowing a thing about life, you know? And we’re blinded by names and identities. We keep saying, “Fine, so this is my house,” and that becomes such a…
Questioner: …strong identity.
Acharya Prashant: …such a strong—not merely an identity, that becomes a thing taken for granted. “But what exactly is a house?” We never ask such simple questions to ourselves. “What am I doing here”—not that we must run away from our houses but we at least need to know, right? That’s the place we invest so much ourselves in. So, what is this constrict called the house? What is it?
I go, and I work somewhere, and I earn from that place—“What is this thing called livelihood? What am I doing with all these hours I spend there?” So, that’s the first thing. Firstly, there has to be a very honest, a very ruthless observation of who am I, and what am I doing, and how am I living. Once that is there, then light starts glimmering on its own.
You come to see how much of it needs to be built upon, how much of it needs to be just put aside, and there is, you know, a series of mini epiphanic explosions. You keep realizing a thing every hour or so, or every second day or so—“There is something that is there, I never noticed it.” We don’t even look at our faces properly, do we? We are so busy, you know, running this treadmill of life, we hardly have any time to pause and ponder. So, that’s the first thing that’s needed.
So, I’m sorry, I won’t be able to give any quick takeaways for people to drive home or carry home. I would firstly ask them what this thing called home is.
Questioner: Which is I’m sure I never thought about.
Acharya Prashant: The saints have kept asking, “Where is your real home? Where is your real home? What are you doing here? Is this really your home?” So, how do I give them something to carry home when the word “home” itself stands very nebulously defined?
Questioner: Yeah. I’m sure, like me, lot of us will think about it today. And you’ve also mentioned—like, we always hear in scriptures, our dharma is to liberate, to find moksh, so what I—this is my personal view and my personal limitation that liberation is not perceivable with whatever we are. So, even if we’ve heard, we’ve only heard from sages or heard in scriptures or read somewhere. So, something which is not perceivable, so how do we go towards it? That is our end purpose?
Acharya Prashant: No, no. Again, again, you have returned to the “how to.”
Questioner: The action?
Acharya Prashant: The “how to” part. You see, liberation is not a point to go to. If I’m in bondage right now, if I go to some point, I’ll be going to that point with all my bondages.
So, most people who claim to be liberated are actually liberated beings — so-called liberated beings with all their bondages, and that’s the point—you don’t have to focus on liberation; you must focus on your slavery because that’s one’s immediate reality. There are a thousand things that encircle us, circumscribe us, limit us, prevent us from flying free, from expressing who we truly are — we have to talk about all those things.
Liberation, as a word, as a concept, is just a utopia. It drugs us; it helps keep our servility in continuation so I can perfectly entertain myself — “Liberation, I am coming towards you. See, I meditate. See, I do this. I perform that trick” — spiritual trick — “I sing those kinds of songs, and I visit those particular shrines or pilgrimages,” and I do all these things.
And even as I am doing all these daily rituals, I’m handcuffed—prostrating before the deity, I’m handcuffed; meditating, I’m handcuffed. One thing I don’t want to talk about is the handcuff because that handcuff is linked to my identity.
Questioner: And it’s very painful.
Acharya Prashant: It’s very painful, and I’m attached to it.
Questioner: Indeed.
Acharya Prashant: So, I don’t want to look at my real problem; I just want to keep talking of a utopian solution — which doesn’t make sense. And there is just too little emphasis on looking at one’s life and, firstly, honestly acknowledging where the bondages are, where we really are in shackles— we don’t want to look there. It’s as if the bulk of humanity has agreed to conspire against itself.
Questioner: Unknowingly, I think. Unknowingly?
Acharya Prashant: I suspect, quite knowingly. And it’s a mutual thing. I won’t call your bondages out, and you repeat or return the favor. And if I do honestly point out at something, then I’ll be called insensitive, and crude, and out of place, and the odd one out, and all those things. So, to belong… to belong, to belong to your flock, to your family, to your workplace, to your society…
Questioner: Or even to the ideology. Like, all of us are connected to it.
Acharya Prashant: …or to your ideology, you have to necessarily remain blind to something. So, it just can’t be ignorance; I see a lot of deliberate connivance in this. And it’s costing us very, very dearly.
Questioner: Yeah.