Who is the real disciple?
Questioner: What is the sign of a real disciple? A disciple is someone, not who has so much devotion for his Guru, but for whom everything is a Guru, like every situation, every person, he is learning something, not only from one person but from everything. It was a very interesting point.
Acharya Prashant: You could take it ahead and say that the real disciple is the one who already knows that which is essential and then learns whatever he wants to learn.
Questioner: … does whatever …
Acharya Prashant: The real disciple is the one who already knows the essential, full stop. And then, goes on to do whatever he wants to do, learn, unlearn, forget, remember. The real disciple cannot be a learner. He is the learned one. In fact, the word ‘learner’ is a very dangerous word because it’s a word of imperfection. The real disciple is the one who already knows.
Questioner: Is the self-image of perfection not more dangerous?
Acharya Prashant: Any image is very dangerous, any image is very dangerous. Unfortunately, you can never have an image of perfection. Whenever you’ll have an image, it will be an imperfect image. Try having an image of perfection. Don’t you want to improve it? Is it perfect then? So, the image will always be of imperfection.
The real disciple is already seated in perfection. Seated in perfection, knowing everything, now he is free to gather knowledge.
Questioner: But isn’t the greatest knowing, like Socrates said, not that one doesn’t know. Life is like Socrates said, “He only knows that he doesn’t know.”
Questioner: Yes, and that was also what this guy says. He said that the only difference between a real disciple and someone who likes the idea of the disciple, is that the disciple really knows he doesn’t know and he wants to know. That is all knowledge.
Acharya Prashant: No. If you know that you don’t know, then the knowing is tremendously more important than not knowing. There are two parts to this sentence. I know that I don’t know. I know that I don’t know. In this the 'knowing part' is tremendously more important than the 'not knowing part'.
Questioner: Yes.
Acharya Prashant: That is the disciple, who already knows, who already knows. And knowing already, now I am free to say, “I don’t know.”
Questioner: That knowing is just being centered in the truth and life is spontaneous. It is not a specific knowledge …
Questioner: It is already a level of …
Acharya Prashant: It is not knowledge. It is not something.
Questioner: … awareness. You think it already is a level of awareness.
Acharya Prashant: Not a level of awareness, it is the truth. Not a level of awareness. It is the truth.
Otherwise, learning will arise from an inferiority complex. You will say, “I want to know because I don’t know.” So, you are starting from unfulfillment, which is a bad point to start from.
Questioner: But many people are starting from that point. Even Krishna said it, no? The ones who are desperate are coming to me.
Acharya Prashant: Read that sentence nicely.
Questioner: OK, I cannot quote, I’m not the expert.
Acharya Prashant: The ones… Krishna says, “You come to me only when I call you.” This calling is far more important than the coming, because the coming will anyway follow when you are called. The calling is the perfection.
The calling is the perfection.
Krishna says, “You attain me only by my grace. On your own you can never attain me. Even to attain me you have to first be devoted to me.” So, what is more important, your attainment or your devotion?
To attain me, you first have to be devoted to me. So, what is more important? The attainment or the devotion?
Questioner: If these go together, there is nothing that is more important because you cannot separate.
Acharya Prashant: Okay, which of these two? If I have to do away with one of them, which of these two can I do away with?
Questioner: Attempting
Acharya Prashant: So, if I am devoted, then the rest would anyway happen. I don’t even have to bother.
Questioner: But there is another thing. You cannot be devoted to something you don’t know. So, deep inside you …
Acharya Prashant: You can only be devoted to that which you do not know. If you’re devoted to something that you know, then it is not devotion, then it is just attachment. If you’re devoted to something that you know, then you are devoted to an object and that is attachment.
Devotion is always to the unknowable. Devotion is faith. It is always to the unknowable.
Questioner: So, when you’re in love, it is kind of the unknowable thing …
Acharya Prashant: With God. Never say that faith requires knowing. Faith requires absolute unknowing. Only then it is faith. Otherwise, it is something else.
Questioner: Otherwise, it is business.
Acharya Prashant: Otherwise, it’s business.
Questioner: And that ties back to the surrender that we started off this conversation with, that’s the something … the mind… there is just no method, just …
Questioner: And that’s the tricky part because it’s so hard to surrender because the mind has fear of the unknown.
Acharya Prashant: But you are already surrendered. Before you started speaking this sentence, did you know what would come out from your mouth?
Questioner: No
Acharya Prashant: So, aren’t you already surrendered?
Questioner: Yes, that is totally true.
Acharya Prashant: Aren’t you already surrendered?
Questioner: It’s just happening.
Acharya Prashant: So, this is surrender. You are already surrendered. Now, why are you worrying?
Questioner: One guru said once, but you don’t have a choice. You have to surrender. It’s like …
Acharya Prashant: You are surrendered. It is not that you have to surrender, you are surrendered. Even to say you have to surrender, makes surrender something distant. You are surrendered.
Questioner: Brings up the concept of the river again. Swimming against it is to think that we’re not already surrendered. It’s that letting go, you know what I mean? Letting go. When you’re letting go you have the full force of that river behind you.
Questioner: Yeah. So, they’re all of effort then... which a path would be, a sign that you’re going in the wrong way?
Acharya Prashant: Or a sign that you are having good fun. Either. If effort is serious effort, then you are going the wrong way. If effort is ‘let’s party baby’, then you are going the right way.
Questioner: In the effort of seeking
Acharya Prashant: You know sex burns so many calories. It’s effort. It’s not for the ones with large tummies. So, effort not only means that you’re going the wrong way, it also means that maybe you’re having some good fun.
Questioner: You know, it’s in the subtle things like that interaction where our assumption in using this language that we share and use, we understood that it’s surrender, right? That the, when you’re saying the effort side of things, letting go of the effort, right? I was agreeing with you in the sense, so I see how limited the mind can be as soon as you bring up the fact that it’s a shattering of this, right? It’s to be aware of the subtle things, about how our language and how limited our thoughts can be. If you didn’t step in, we would’ve, probably could have engaged in a conversation for twenty minutes about how everything is about being effortless, right? Do you get what I mean?
Questioner: Yes. Yes, it is easy to bring a wall, a limit to not to go farther away.
Questioner: So, it’s just, we can be a little bit more aware of those things as they occur.
Questioner: We almost create a new concept, something against effort.
Questioner: While the goal would be to, I guess I look at it as not be of a limit. I guess not to be of a limited expression. Not to become a story by being the space in which stories can flow, we can discuss, but to be not of any limited thought. Do you get, do you kind of get what I’m trying to mean by that? I saw that just happened there, that’s all. That’s all.
Acharya Prashant: So, one can only narrate. And only narration is one’s responsibility, not action. Action is happening on its own. Narration is alright as long as you’re not interfering in, like a commentator in a match, you’re narrating, not becoming a player. You said that, I saw that happen. And it’s so beautiful when you use that. I saw that happen. I didn’t make it happen, I saw that happen. I’m a commentator. I’m not even a commentator, I’m a, like Sanjay in Mahabharat seeing with eyes closed.
Questioner: Yes, one of the traps would be then, you’re giving too much importance to words and meanings and …
Acharya Prashant: And to God.
Questioner: And to God.
Acharya Prashant: And making a mess of him in the attempt. You know, in some sense, to build a temple is the most irreligious act that you can ever do. By giving importance to god you bring him down to your own ..
Questioner: I like how you used truth or love or water or there’s water, pure water. There’s nothing to be excited about.
Acharya Prashant: But in some sense you know, speaking of all these things, it’s a disgrace.
Remember what Hafiz was saying yesterday, “You’re already in a liplock and then you tear away to say kiss me.” Oh! he didn’t say that you’re already in a liplock, but he said that why do you want to say kiss me. Why do you want to talk about these things? They are there. Now, why do you want to talk?
So, after a point it gets sickening and you want to stop all this and just go and rather roll around in the dust and take a nice bath.
Questioner: What do you think of these places, like these promising places like that it’s good to meditate because of the energy?
Acharya Prashant: How does it matter whether we discuss here on this chair and there on that chair? Is the chair doing the talking? Yes, the chair should be comfortable. If it’s sending a pin up my ass then it would be a problem but apart from that nothing else. So, what do you mean by a place full of positive energy and this and that?
First of all, science education should be made mandatory till at least fifteen years of age, so that people don’t talk of all these things, positive energy, negative energy, this and that. We must know what energy is.
Questioner: What is it?
Acharya Prashant: Energy is matter, material, physical, that’s all. And all matter is mind, that’s all.
Questioner: So, what is spirit then?
Acharya Prashant: That which makes you call material as material, because material has no agency to know itself. This table will never call itself a table. But ‘this material’, calls ‘this material’ as ‘material’; and that is the spirit.
Questioner: What is energy then? Usually, like I understand what you’re saying, that usually everyone is experiencing the same thing like you spoke to the... he’ll say the energy, it’s very vague.
Acharya Prashant: Yes, that is the danger in it. Everybody is experiencing what everybody else is experiencing. Which means that they are experiencing it only because everybody else is experiencing it. It’s a mutual mass hypnosis. “Oh you experienced it, let me also, yes, yes, I also experienced it.” And if you don’t experience it, then you’re an outlier. Nobody likes you because you are exposing the myth.
Questioner: If you bring out a big bowl of french fries, they’re all gonna agree it smells good.
Questioner: Or if you blindfolded someone and took them and you said it’s actually the Delhi airport but there’s really strange energy at Delhi Airport today.
Acharya Prashant: Would he say the same thing if he is asleep on the airport?
Questioner: Asleep? I have no idea.
Acharya Prashant: No idea. So, energy is just an idea. If it goes away when you are asleep, it means it is not real. Why are you talking about it?
Questioner: Yeah, but everything goes away when we’re asleep like personality.
Acharya Prashant: Which means that everything is, yes, which means the energy is the same as a personality, a thought, an idea, false.
