Shivling: Understanding Before the Debate

Questioner: Greetings, Acharya Ji. My name is Paritosh Tripathi, and I am from Banaras.

Acharya Prashant: I am also from Banaras. Yes?

Questioner: Maharishi Vyas Ji has written the Skanda Purana, which has seven sections. The fourth section in it is the Kashi section and I have seen that all the Shivlings in Kashi have been described in great detail.

So, one question is about the importance of these Shivlings—what is the purpose of worshiping them? Secondly, does this pilgrimage have any special significance, or is it just considered a place of visit? I want to ask, what is your view on this, Acharya Ji?

Acharya Prashant: That's a good question. I want this question to be asked by all those people who have deep interest, curiosity, etc., in the Shivlinga controversy, especially those people who have very strong ideas and opinions—extreme opinions.

First of all, they should ask whether they even know what "Shivling" means. What does it mean? If they don't know what Shivling means, then what do they believe in? What are they making noise about and they don't even know what Shivling means?

What is Shivling? I've discussed this in detail many times before. There are so many books out there. There must be one chapter in those books where there was a discussion for about an hour about what exactly the meaning of Shivling is. Its video will also be available—it is available. I have explained in great detail where the worship of the Linga started, how it progressed, and what misconceptions exist about it. And how the British and many contemporary historians have ridiculed the Shivling without understanding its meaning—all these things have been discussed in detail earlier.

I will tell you briefly now so that I can come to the second part of the question later.

Ling means a symbol—first of all. What does "Ling" mean? Ling is not a part of the body. No part of the body is called Ling. A man's genitals are called Ling only because, by looking at it, it becomes clear—it becomes evident—what kind of creature it is. It is a male. So, that is a symbol, right? A child is born, and the nurse immediately tells whether it's a boy or a girl. She looks at the genitals and tells, right? So, the genitals are a symbol; it is a sign, isn't it? Similarly, a Shivling is a symbol of something. Ever since this controversy started in Kashi, many people have started making very vulgar and indecent jokes about Shivling, which can be seen on social media. It makes one feel very upset after seeing all this. Especially when educated people say such things—it feels bad; it hurts.

They say that the Shivling is a male organ and the base on which it is installed is a female organ. And if there is a pillar or something else, they start saying, "This is also a Shivling. That is also a Shivling." This is a very stupid joke.

In Sankhya Yoga, there is the theory of Purusha and Prakriti, isn't it? Purusha means consciousness. You find the same principles in Vedanta also. One more thing is added to this in Vedanta, which provides the perfection of the soul to the philosophy of Sankhya Yoga. There is no soul in Sankhya.

What is there in Sankhya? Purusha and Prakriti.

In Sankhya, Purusha is infinite—just like the mind is infinite, isn't it? Everyone's mind is different. Likewise, every person is different. So, understand "man" like this—that the mind itself is a man. That which is insecure towards nature, that which is vulnerable, that which can be corrupted by nature or influenced, is called a man. So, there is a man and there is nature.

Man desires to reach a place where he can remain completely unaffected by nature and can be just a spectator of nature. Because when man is influenced by nature—and nature is represented by the symbol of a woman—when this man gets influenced by nature, then both man and nature get mutilated.

Okay. So, it is good for man as well is good for nature as well, that man remains just a spectator of nature and does not get involved—remains a witness. Then, what should we call the person in Vedanta, when only one witness remains? What should we say about that person who is just a witness? What do we call him? Soul

What if I'm unable to be a witness? Mind or man—you don't understand what is a man, what is the mind, and what is the nature of the mind? What is the nature of the mind? To get attached to nature. Just like we see in the world that it is the nature of a man to get attached to a woman, right?

From "lepat," the term has derived "lepatna", In Sanskrit, what is called "Lepat" in ancient dialect becomes "lepat," "Lepatna."

So, it is the nature of a man that when he perceives a woman, he goes there and clings to her. In the same way, on the subtle plane, on the mental plane, the man—the mind—its nature is to go into nature. Nature doesn't only mean woman; nature means the entire existence—everything. He gets attached to it. Someone is attached to the car, someone is attached to money, some people have an attachment to some other things of their choice. There's a tendency to stick to one another, isn't there?

Physically, just like a man has a tendency to go near a woman and hug her, similarly, at the subtle level, the mind has a tendency to get involved in all the things of the world. Okay

Now, this is a big problem of human existence. What to do? Because when you cling to them, all you get is sadness. Now comes the deeper symbolism of Shivlinga. It says—look, if you have taken birth, then you are there in the body. But even while living in the body, you have to live as if you are without a body. So, the shape of the Yoni that you see there in the Shivalinga is actually the world or the body, and this Lingam that you see in the middle of it is the Consciousness—the Consciousness which is located in the body.

What is the Ling? Consciousness. What is the Yoni? The body. So, that which is the complete symbol—who is it? That is us, my friends. That Shivalinga is us. And then, what is that Shivalinga teaching us?

You have to live the same, but live as if you are free from it. You have to live in the body but live in the body as if you're not the body. Always remember your sole form. And we forget that again and again. That is why, in every village, in every street, Shivlinga was established—so that we remembered again and again how to live life.

This is the meaning of Shivlinga. Do you understand? What is Ling? A symbol of consciousness. Such a Consciousness which is present in the world and in the body. Because Consciousness resides in the body only. When the body is burnt does the Consciousness remain?

So, that Consciousness remains present in the body, but still, it is free from the body. And that ideal in India is called "Videh Mukta"—and more precisely, "freedom from life."

Look—he is in the body, free from the body. Living, but free from life. Free from life means what we call an ordinary life—the struggle, the pain, the fight, small joys, small sorrows. He is free from all these. To ensure that we remember that ideal, it is symbolized by the Shivalinga. Are you understanding?

So, the meaning of Shivalinga is that even while living amidst worldly things, one should not give much importance to them. The real resident of Banaras is the one who remains free from the world and who has nothing to do with worldly matters. He lives on the Earth, but if you look into his eyes, you can see the sky. He is the real resident of Kashi. One who is still too much concerned with worldly affairs, worldly troubles, and quarrels cannot be a resident of Kashi at all. Are you getting the point?

Now, when you see Shivalinga, will you remember anything? What will you remember?

Questioner: Consciousness. Simple.

Acharya Prashant: You have to live in the world, but you also have to remain free from the world. This is what people say—we have to cross the river, but we must not get wet. Cross it like this—you have to cross it. "Oh, boatman, take me to the other side!" Haven't you heard it? "Oh, boatman, my beloved is on the other side!" The beloved is on the other side.

What does the beloved mean? Who are we? Mind. Beloved means soul. Even in devotion, all the songs, all the hymns—they are all calls of the mind toward the soul. This morning, I was speaking on All India Radio. Did you hear it, or haven't you?

In that too, I asked them to play a couple of songs. Which ones were they? Those were the songs of the heart—songs that remember this “Ankhiyon ke jharokhe se, tujhe dekha jo ssnwre, tum do najar aaye, bahut door najar aaye.” If you look with the eyes, it's too far. Because, as the Upanishads say, "Eyes cannot reach it." Are you getting it?

So, we have to help him cross the river, but we must not get wet. We must not drown in the river. We have to live in this world, but we must not become worldly. This is the teaching contained in Shivalinga. Are you able to understand? There will be no benefit in offering milk on it. This is madness. We have to learn from this. You will have to learn from it. Are you learning or not?

Shivalinga is a very powerful symbol. It will teach you life. It will teach you how to live. Did you learn anything or not? Or are you just fighting in the name of Shivlinga? The temple was built for this very reason. All symbols have meaning. But if you forget the meaning, then all symbols are nonsense.

Temples are very beautiful symbols. This lotus leaf that you see imprinted on the walls of temples—what a wonderful symbol! But we do not know the meaning of any symbols because all the symbols are revealed by Vedanta. We do not read Vedanta, so no symbol holds any meaning for us anymore.

Here, we have the verses of the Bhagavad Gita before us. Tell me, what does each letter mean? It's a symbol, isn't it? If you know its meaning, then that symbol becomes meaningful to you, right? If you don't know how to read, then what do you say? "Kala Akshar Bhainsa Barabar." That is the condition of all Hindus. Every symbol has become like a buffalo for us—we don't know anything. There is an abundance of symbols in our culture too, but we don't know the meaning of any one of them. Without going to the Upanishads, you won't be able to know why that symbol was created. Then what starts? When you don't know anything and still worship, this is called hypocrisy. Superstition.

What do you call it when you don't know what you're doing but keep doing it anyway? What is it called? Hypocrisy. We are hypocrites. We don't know anything. Sometimes we will just circle around the trees, someday we will keep fast, sometimes we go to the river and light a lamp, sometimes we will go somewhere and light a fire of some sort. We're doing everything, but we don't even know why we're doing all this.

Once you know the meaning of Shivling, now even if you see a small Shivling, you will change your mind. Do try it once. You may be caught in a fight, stuck in some trouble, something may be troubling you—you will become calm. The symbol will remind you of something. Are you getting the point?

What else did you ask?

Questioner: Is pilgrimage just a pilgrimage, just a place to visit, or is there any special significance to pilgrimage?

Acharya Prashant: Tell me. I have explained too much.

Questioner: So I think there will be no special significance, whenever there is a Shivlinga, and my feelings toward it will be the same, then, as you have just answered the previous question, the pilgrimage will have no special significance. Wherever you see a Shivlinga, the same feeling will come.

Acharya Prashant: Excellent! Beautiful! Sit down. Very good.

Now, I will tell you a few things in detail. There are two or three things. Are you finding all this interesting, or is the discussion getting too religious or something? Should we talk about something else?

Questioner: "No, no, Acharya, this is interesting."

Acharya Prashant: Okay, let's see. We live burdened by two forces. "We" means who, by the way? Who are we? Mind. Consciousness. Consciousness lives with two burdens. We want to understand what pilgrimage means. Okay.

Consciousness is burdened under two burdens. The first primary burden is biological—taking birth itself is a burden. So, the body, because the body comes with instincts, is a very heavy burden.

And the second burden is social. We brought this body into our lives, and after that, God knows what kind of values society has put into our minds. All kinds of nonsense—ideology, ideals—this, that, do this, do that, this is your duty, go here, don't go there. Now, these two things make life not worth living. Okay.

So one wants to go to a place where one can be free from at least one of these burdens. This is the first thing. Which burden? The social one.

Therefore, you will find that most pilgrimages take place in picturesque places. Picturesque places mean where living is a joy—away from the city. Away from the city means away from whom? Away from social influences. The burden has reduced. Wherever your burden reduces, understand that the pilgrimage space is being established. At the place where your burden starts reducing, understand that a pilgrimage space is being established.

That is why pilgrimage sites were established on the heights of the Himalayas, sometimes in the middle of dense forests, or on the seashores. Spiritual sites were established. In all these places where there was no population at that time. Now there is a population there because people moved there. It is not a big deal. After a few days, you will find that there's a shopping mall in Kedarnath and Badrinath too. Now, we have built such a wide road, so many people will go there. A hotel will also be built. When the hotel is built, people will do some shopping too. They will stay in the hotel for a long time, so they will buy too. First, small shops will come, then big shops will come, then the goods will also come. So, all this happens later.

But what happens there first? Deserting. And when you sit in a deserted place, you become a little free. You become a little free. Whichever city you live in, maybe you also do this. When you get troubled—many people do this—they leave the city for some distance. If nothing else, just sit on the bank of a canal. One can walk a little distance away. The fields and barns are good places to sit. Do you do this, or not?

Some people might be doing it. Some people might not even have land—where will they go? You do this much—when you feel upset, you go to the roof of your house. Where will you go? You are sitting alone on the roof. What are you doing? You are trying to give your mind some peace and freedom. You are trying to give your mind some sky.

What does the sky mean? Enormous. So, this is the first thing about pilgrimage—that there, you remain a little free from society. Now, understand another thing. A story has been associated with every pilgrimage. And since childhood, you have been fed that story so much so that you almost consider that story to be real. So, when you visit that place, that story comes alive for you. It's just a story.

There is a difference between a story and a tale. A story always has some higher purpose—only then is it called a story; otherwise, it is just a story. So, when you visit the place, the story comes alive.

Now, suppose you're told a story related to Rishikesh in which Shiva is there, and you are Vedanti—you know Vedanta. Hence, you understand the meaning of Shivatva. You know "Satyam-Shivam-Sundaram" and you went there, and as soon as you reached over there, Shiva awakened in your memory. Then, the mind will become peaceful. Wouldn't the mind become peaceful?

This is the science of pilgrimages. Firstly, keep people away from society. Secondly, create a story related to that place that makes the person feel distanced from his own body as well. The body means basic impulses—emotions, love, hate—all these things arise from the body, right? Right?

Make something where the person can be free. The sages were great lovers, and they were also very realistic people. They knew very well that every child born will be born ought to suffer a lot. So, out of love, they made such arrangements that the people who came in the future would not have to suffer so much.

There are only two types of sufferings—birth-related suffering and social suffering. To save people from social suffering, they built pilgrimages in beautiful natural places far away. And to save people from physical suffering, they associated such stories with pilgrimages—which was sometimes related to Ram, sometimes to Shiva, sometimes to Krishna.

And They used to believe that. That you know Ramatva, then you had studied the Yoga Vashishtha. That you know Krishnatva, then you have studied the Gita; and if you know Shivatva, then believe me, they were assuming that you were sitting with the Avadhut Gita.

And whether it is the Bhagavad Gita or the Avadhut Gita, what do both say about the body? "You are not the body." Who are you? One whom fire cannot burn, water cannot wet, and wind cannot dry. That is you.

So, remembering Krishna means remembering your own soul. Establish a pilgrimage place by adding Krishna's name to some good place. And what is the meaning of adding Krishna's name? Add the Gita. And what does adding the Gita mean? Something sacred with the place.

You are the one whom fire will never be able to burn. You are not the body. This is the science of pilgrimages.

Now, if you go to any pilgrimage place and find that an entire city has settled there, then how is it a place of pilgrimage? You had come to get away from society, but there is too much society here! If you go on a pilgrimage and find that body consciousness is setting in within you, then how is it a pilgrimage place? Pilgrimage is meant to give you some relief from both the body and mind. And if going on a pilgrimage makes you even more of a body, then it is not a pilgrimage, my friend.

If, after going on a pilgrimage, the sadness of your mind increases further, if the wheels of your mind start spinning faster, then how is it a pilgrim place? Now, this is the injustice we have done to our pilgrimage sites. We did not allow them to remain pilgrimage sites.

Those pilgrimages have to be revived again. The pilgrimage places will have to be made like pilgrimage places again. I have been spending a lot of time in Rishikesh for the last few years. There is very little left that resembles a pilgrimage. Rafting cannot be done in a pilgrimage. No! Do it somewhere else, my friend. There are many rivers in the Ganges and many places for it—do it somewhere else.

A pilgrimage center cannot be established by making noise like this and singing absurd film songs. Animal meat cannot be sold at a pilgrimage site! If you go there and ask for mutton tikka in any restaurant in Rishikesh and you get it, then how is it a pilgrimage place? Boys and girls behave as if they are in Goa, and there is a TikTok-like craze on the beaches there. So, we cannot call it a pilgrim place. We want our pilgrimages back.

And our pilgrimage places have not been snatched away by others. We have snatched away our pilgrimage places ourselves. We think that we have only a few temples that have been taken away by others The truth is that every single temple of ours has been taken away from us. In fact, every single pilgrimage site of ours has been taken away from us, and we ourselves have snatched them away.

Now, tell me—do you want to talk about two, three, four, or five temples? Or do you want to talk about thousands of temples and pilgrimage sites which are visible but have actually disappeared? Tell me quickly.

If you want to strengthen your ego, you will only say that you want two or four special temples back. But if you really worship truth and are in love with truth, then you will say, "I want all my pilgrimage sites and temples back, not just two or three temples." And you must remember—no one else has taken them away from you. You have lost them yourself.

Are you getting the point?

**Questioner: ** Acharya Ji, greetings. My name is S. Tripathi, and I am from Chandauli.

Acharya Prashant: Today, Banaras has become a topic of discussion.

Questioner: Sir, you spoke clearly about the Shivling, and some things have become clear in that but I want to know—if someone falls in love with the truth, how can we know whether it is the truth or not?

Is it possible that my mind or my intellect has created an infinite illusion or something like that in front of me, and I am living in that illusion? I want to ask you—am I living in reality, or is this some kind of confusion? What do you say? I want to have your opinion.

Acharya Prashant: This has no direct connection with the previous topic, but I will still answer it.

It could be a fraud. There is no guarantee or assurance that what you feel is true is the truth. But move towards what you feel is right—with all your devotion and complete honesty toward the truth.

If you have devotion to the truth and you move towards what you believe to be the truth, but it turns out not to be the truth—what will you do then?

Questioner: "I will be doomed, sir."

Acharya Prashant: Oh! It's nothing like that. You are giving the wrong answer. You love mangoes, right? You go to buy mangoes. You only want mangoes. And you go to a place where, no matter how much ability or intelligence you have, only mangoes are available.

Suppose you have been cheated—someone gives you a banana instead of a mango. Then what will you do? If your love is true, then what will you do?

Questioner: "I will search for it again."

Acharya Prashant: Yes! You will search again. And now you will search with more discretion and experience. Now you will not choose a banana.

Questioner: So what if the intelligence is of an average level?

Acharya Prashant: You will be deceived even more—but you will keep moving forward. You will get better with every step. The edge of these intellectuals comes from the truth itself.

Love is such a powerful thing that it can make even a foolish person wise. The saints who have talked so much about miracles—they are miracles themselves. The dumb discover speech. The deaf discover sound. The foolish become wise.

This does not mean that some special operation will happen and suddenly your eyes will open. This is a symbol—understand the meaning. Everything happens. All this work happens with love, with love, with love.

Questioner: Greetings, Acharya Ji. As you just told us, almost all of our people have gradually left Rajasthan. One thing comes to my mind that the issue of gaining knowledge is going on, so we have to start from somewhere. The issue of mosques—is it right or wrong for people to fight like this?

Acharya Prashant: There was so much discussion about the Shivlinga. If I had to speak on it, I would have spoken. Right? Do you want me to stay alive or not?

Just understand what is going on with that issue, if I say anything on that issue, they will kill me.

Questioner: Someone has to take efforts, right?

Acharya Prashant: You do it! Someone, give him a gun! A hint is enough for the wise. Whatever they wanted to understand from what I explained, everyone understood.

But now, I will not make noise by stooping to the level of the "wise" people who appear on TV debates. Or do you want me to talk in their tone and then talk at their level? What I told you, Isn't it enough?

Don't you understand what this whole old matter is about? I will speak. I will speak openly. You chain in your hands —after that, I will speak.

It doesn’t happen just like that—an organization makes appeals again and again. Make the organization strong if you want to hear the truth. Otherwise, the forces you face are everywhere—not just on one side, but everywhere. Whether it is this side or that side, those forces have tremendous physical strength, and they are not prepared to face any kind of opposition.

Someone will get up from here—and I will be sitting like this—what do you call it? A Sitting Duck. He will shoot me straight here. We won’t even know who that was. He will be proven in court to be insane. The court will acquit him too.

The Income Tax Department will come and freeze the bank account of the organization. Now go ahead. One day, charges will be filed. Suddenly a police vehicle will come and take away two or four people from the organization. They’ll say anything. A girl will come from somewhere and say that she has been raped—but you won’t come to help then. If you want me to speak and speak openly, then believe what I say. If I say that the organization needs resources, then give it.

The first threat came in 2015—it came from Islamic fundamentalists. I had conducted some sessions on the Quran. They said they will kill me. I thought, "This happens more within Islam—there are more skin cults, more extremism."

But for the last two years, threats do not come from Muslims but from the so-called sanatani cultural people. "Who are you to point fingers at our ways?" And they don’t say it politely. They talk using abusive language. "You will disappear, and no one will ever know. We know which roads we take, if there’s an accident, you won’t even know how it happened."

Our situation is strange. This is what happened with Islamic extremists and here Hindu fundamentalists. And then you come to this. This left-wing, the leftists including liberals—they think I am right-wing because I talk about Upanishads and Vedanta. They think I am one of the Hindu Babas. So they obstruct our work as much as they are able to.

Hindus think I am a leftist, so they also protest in whatever way they can. Now, one more new thing has been added to all this. Because I am also telling the Dalits that Sanatan Dharma actually does not accept any kind of caste system, hence, Dalit leaders also have a problem with me.

They say, "I am pulling them away from breaking with Sanatan Dharma. I’m telling them to become Buddhist or something else. Break away from the Sanatan Stream. And you are bringing Dalits back into the Sanatan stream!" So they also have a problem with me. There is no class that is happy with me.

Muslims were already angry. Hindus are also angry. Dalits are also angry. Left-wing liberals are also angry. There are many people who oppose. But very few people seem supporting.

Now, tell me—what to do?

** Questioner:** Hello, Acharya Ji. I totally agree with what you said. I understand it. I have been associated with organizations for 20 years. I have seen everyone understood everyone. But I don’t believe in anyone.

And as you are talking about conspiracies—Seeing everyone’s conspiracies in the name of religion, my interest in religion is waning. As they look decent from the outside but on the inside, they seem to be against his religion.

And when you were asked that question, and you didn’t say anything—I understand why you didn’t say anything.

Acharya Prashant: What did I not say? I have already said everything.

** Questioner:** No, you said they would do this to me—

Acharya Prashant: Wait! Let me tell you something. I am saying everything. I don’t know how to speak in their language. Yes, I have spoken in the language that you understand. We have already had our conversation.

But the language in which he wants us to learn belongs to others. Speaking in that language is not right for this mission right now.

** Questioner:** So this is what I would like to request from my brothers and sisters that we should extend our hands. And what happened in the past should not happen to Acharya Ji.

Thank you.

Acharya Prashant: Thank you.

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